Belonging

Episode 6: Belonging

What does it really mean to belong?

Most conversations about belonging focus on finding the right people or finally fitting in. But what if belonging isn't about fitting in at all? What if it's about finding the places where you can be fully yourself without having to shrink, perform, or compromise who you are?

In the final episode of this series, Wendy and KLynn explore belonging through a different lens. Together they discuss why the desire to belong begins so early in life, how childhood experiences shape our search for acceptance, and why treating belonging as a need instead of a choice can leave us vulnerable to unhealthy relationships, communities, and identities.

From personal stories of feeling like outsiders to conversations about discernment, authenticity, toxic belonging, and the courage to leave spaces that no longer help us grow, this episode brings together the themes explored throughout the series. The discussion challenges listeners to consider not just where they belong, but whether the places they choose truly allow them to become more fully themselves.

Because maybe belonging isn't about finally fitting in.

Maybe it's about finally coming home to yourself.

As always, we ask: What's missing from the discussion?
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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:09

I was gonna tell you about something that happened, but that's it was a thought I had. Apparently it must not have been a very important thought because I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Was it a TV show, a documentary, something like that?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

No, no, no. Have you heard about Jimothy the Raccoon in Seattle? Oh, I'm gonna listen. Jimothy's all over my feed. I'm gonna have to make sure he's all over yours too.

unknown 0:30

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

He has a they think they think he has a spinal deformity. But if you if you Google Jimothy, if you just Google Jimothy uh with a Google, he runs across your screen. There's just been a lot of happiness involving Jimothy. There's been a lot of songs, there's a lot of things that have made me laugh and smile, but that's not and he has are you Googling Jimothy right now? Oh you have to see him. Even baby Jimothy is just adorable and is like Seattle's raccoon. He's being talked about all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Oh, that's adorable.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, but that wasn't what I wanted to talk about. I was gonna oh I was gonna tell you about an interesting experience I had at the gas station this morning when I went in. Yes. I don't know. Sometimes sometimes I wonder if people realize some of the things they say, just socially speaking. Maybe that wasn't the best choice. We all know how I am in the morning, right? I have to stop at the gas station on the way to work, which first and foremost I do not want to do. Socializing people ick, especially first thing in the morning. We're talking before 5 a.m. as I'm driving into work contemplating my life choices, even though I do love my job. And I don't know if I love my job because I tell myself I love my job so frequently, or if I truly do at this point, I think I might have gaslit myself into loving my job. But beyond that, the whole point of what I'm gonna tell you, uh I want your I want your opinion about this. I kind of was listening in to the person that was ahead of me in line. And I I don't I really wasn't paying that much attention, but there was I could feel the energy, right? And it almost from the little bit I gathered, I felt like the guy was talking about this woman's haircut. And I was like, oh, but then the energy just didn't feel good. So I go up and I'm just telling him what I need, and the first thing he does is he he just reaches out for a fist bump. I'm like, okay, well, whatever fist bump, cool, dude, get me what I need. I gotta get back in my truck and I've gotta go to work. And then he looks me dead square in the eye and he says, I'm not trying to be rude, which is my first thought, right? You d you don't say I'm not trying to be rude unless you know what you're about to say is rude. Right?

SPEAKER_02 3:01

That's like saying I'm not racist.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So he says he says to me, He says, uh, what made you decide to do your job? Now my brain works a mile a minute, and in my mind I'm thinking, first and foremost, you have no clue what I do. Right? But I'm like, okay, it's not the time or place. I just I I want to get my item and I want to go. And I said, uh, because he's holding it hostage at this point, even though I've paid. And he says, uh, I said, I like working with my hands. And uh he goes, Oh, you just look to me like you're innocent. You're somebody that would want to just be home baking cookies. Oh my gosh. When I tell you the chuckle, I literally I went, ha ha, absolutely not, was my response as I grabbed my item, turned around, and walked out of that gas station. Now I'm processing this conversation at 4 50 a.m. on a Thursday. And I'm like, why? What about me screams? I want to bake.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

I love cooking, don't in the time I've known you. I would never that would never even come across my mind as a thought that that's what you want. And certainly you're not innocent.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

No, it it almost had, but no, I that's that's the innocence.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

What is so it's I think it's obvious you're in construction. You wear high viz clothing, and I'm sure that probably carpenters.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

I'm wearing I wear carpenter's pants dirty working. Yeah, so it's pretty obvious. My hat that I I've got a backwards hat on that's dirty, like that was him trying to make you feel small, in my opinion. Do you okay? But what if I told you this came from somebody who was a minority? Men? What is it a man?

SPEAKER_02 4:59

Yeah, so it was sexist. That's and this is the thing about the isms and all the phobias people in marginalized groups can hold really toxic beliefs. And it's unfortunate and it's it's sad, but it's a reality that these beliefs are out there, and I think men, any a man of any race can be threatened by a woman. Maybe he was threatened. I were you taller than him?

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Well, I didn't exactly stand next to him, Caitlin. I was across the room. I couldn't tell you. I I feel like maybe I know I'm older than him for sure. Okay. I'm older for sure. I just he was he was younger. If I had to, if I had to have guessed his age, I would have said he was in his his uh mid to late twenties.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

That's disappointing. Yeah, I just I think that he might have been threatened if he saw a woman who was in construction, and so he had to say something to try and make you feel small. I don't think you let people do that very often. Oh no, I didn't, I didn't I didn't feel small at all.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

I walked out of there.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Well, you're almost six foot tall, so I know that feeling small probably is a thing for you.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Um six foot call, and let's talk. No, let's talk. I think this is the first guy ever in the morning when I'm in my work clothes that has ever clocked me as a woman. Because think of how often I'm called sir. He clocked, I'm like, how did he clock me as a woman? It's the menopause making my boobs bigger, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 6:25

The cougar puberty.

unknown 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

The cougar puberty. Oh no. Interesting. I want to go back to being a kitty. It's the plain old house cat. No, yeah, no, I just it's so like, yeah, I've been waiting all day to talk to you about that. I can't even believe it almost slipped my mind because I was like, I would never that's that's very interesting. And the fact that most people don't even clock I'm a woman, especially early in the morning, because one they're half asleep anyways, and they're not really paying attention. All they see is somebody in construction clothes that's presenting masculine, and it's just what can I get you, sir? And this guy clocked me being a woman, and then immediately turned around and you just look like you'd rather be at home baking cookies. Do I enjoy baking cookies? Yes, you're a great cook. Yes, you know that for a fact. Yes, I love I love I love cooking. I'm not a sweets person though. You know, I don't eat I don't eat a lot of sweets. The only sweets I really eat is when I get the craving for the dark chocolate, or I have to have my ice cream. Beyond that, if I'm baking it's for somebody else, then I don't think chocolate chip cookies are healthy to serve to my dog. So not trust me when I tell you I don't want to be at home baking cookies.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Yeah, that's that's really, really weird.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Hmm. Yeah, anyways. Yeah. Transition that into belonging. At least I know where I belong. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Well, I mean, yeah, I and you know, it's funny. I think that we as people do decide sometimes we feel we have the right to decide where other people belong. I mean, I think that is, you know, women should be in the home. Look at you finding the people. You know, it should be you know, things like that. We we all and I'm sure we all have ideas that maybe kind of can be translated into that.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

I think you just I did. I think you just found the better transition. I did.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

I did.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

So perfect, because so I'm just gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna so here's what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna first let everybody know that this was a a series of episodes that was a progression. I do encourage you to listen to all of them. This is the last one in the series, and that uh we are bringing it to an end with an episode about belonging.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

This is outside the footnotes. I am Wendy.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

And then Kaylin.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Welcome, guys. Belonging is one of those things most of us rarely question. We talk about finding our people, finding our community, finding where we fit, and for good reason, connection matters, relationships matter, community matters. But as I was preparing for this conversation, I found myself wondering if there might be something missing from the discussion. Because most conversations about belonging focus on being accepted, on finding a place where we fit. But what if belonging is about more than fitting in? What if belonging isn't just something we need? What if it's something that can enrich who we already are? Because not every form of belonging helps us grow. Some forms of belonging expand us, others ask us to shrink, others quietly ask us to become someone else. So today we're exploring belonging through a different lens, not as something we are desperately searching for, but as something we are intentionally choosing. Because maybe the question isn't where do I belong? Maybe the question is what kind of belonging is actually worth choosing. And as always, what's missing from the discussion? With that, Kaelin, I'm gonna let you take it away. All right.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

All right, let's get started. Why are we drawn towards belonging in the first place? So when we think about belonging and think about your life, Wendy, what's where's the first place in your life where you remember wanting to belong?

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Oh, that's easy peasy. I feel like I'm gonna aces test. That would be within my family unit.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

So are there were there other parts of your life where you wanted to belong in addition to your family?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Oh, I think yeah. I think depending on how all of us one start out in life, some of us are part of more a part of community than others. We want to belong to our church families, we want to belong in school with our peers. Um, I think there's this this need to be accepted, I think that from a very young age is also kind of bred into us. If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Where in your life did you feel like you belonged when you think back to your earlier years?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I mean, if I'm being truthful, I'm gonna tell you I don't feel like I actually belonged anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

I've always felt like I was an uh an oddbile out. I always felt different than everybody else. I felt like I I uh my inner monologue, the way that I saw the world, the way that I questioned it, was not very kindly looked upon or accepted. And I always felt like I was just different.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Did the people around you make you feel like you didn't belong?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Well, yeah. Obviously, it would be the interactions. I'm sorry, that's not condescending. I didn't know. No, that's not condescending to myself. Can you can you give specifics where they're can you think of certain people in your life who maybe kind of Well, yeah, I mean we go back to last week's episode when we were talking about how I was told I talked too much. Yeah. I was I was too much. I was I asked why too often. Um I didn't I've I've been told that I don't like authority. But it's not that I don't uh like or respect authority, it's if you want me to follow or to to believe what you're telling me, you're gonna have to convince me. I don't I'm not like I've never since a very young age, I'm not a sheep. I don't I don't blindly follow because somebody said, I told you so. I have to have a deeper understanding. Even in my job, it's easy. It's an easy job. For most people, it's it's memory, it's learning the tricks, it's it becomes very mundane. But I would never do things just to do them because somebody said that well, that's how you do it.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Like, no, there's gotta be something deeper to this. I need to fully understand it. And I've been that way from a very young age. So when you got the little kid that's constantly going, but why, but why, but why, but why? You know how most parents generally react to that. You know, you're the kid in school that everybody's like, Oh, I wish she'd stop asking questions. You know what I mean? So, yeah, and then also you're the teacher's pet, you're just sucking up to the teacher. And I just I just really wanted to know. I mean, you know this about me. I had a set of encyclopedias. I used to write essays and do research papers for fun. That was my fun. All my friends are going out doing crazy shit, and I'm like, nope. I'm learning all about the antelope this week. I got an essay to myself by Friday.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Yeah, I can really I was I was an achiever and I I liked the academic part of school, and I guess I would get called the teacher's pet too. So I totally get that. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

I wouldn't say I wouldn't say that it was the academic part of school that I liked. I think I was, I I think I did well academically in school because of a sense of it was a it was a need to not fail, right? It was this sense of self that told me that if I failed at anything, that I wasn't good enough that I I wasn't going to be accepted. So I wouldn't say academically speaking, I mean obviously if it was academics I was after, I would have continued to further my education. As opposed to the way that I just I like to learn things, I like to know things. If my if something sparks intrigue inside my brain, then I'm gonna deep dive and I want to learn everything there is about it.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

I want I want to be knowledgeable.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

That's cool. So now looking back where you felt you didn't belong, and now in in your life now, do you feel that you have a stronger sense of belonging as compared to when you were a child?

SPEAKER_00 14:43

I have a stronger sense of belonging to the people that I've allowed to see me in order for there to be a belonging, correct. Do I have a stronger sense of belonging in society in general? Absolutely not. I still feel like the oddball out, I still feel different. I don't feel like the majority of people uh well, here's the thing. We talked about this last week too. None of us perceive the world the same. And so there's always you're always gonna have naysayers, you're always gonna have people that are going to make you feel like you're less than because they can't perceive it the way that you do. They don't, it's people do not want to stop to take the time to remove their own perception and their own ego to genuinely understand you and who you are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

So for me, and I've struggled with belonging to, I think everybody has struggled with feeling like they belong or don't belong. I got to a point, I think probably close to 40, I'm 47 now, where I've accepted that I don't really belong and I don't fit into every group, and I'm I'm very I have very eclectic taste. Like even my poor Amazon algorithm doesn't know what to do with me in terms of music because I'm all over the place. You probably see, because we have a group, we have a friend group where we post the music we listen to, and I'm okay with that. And it it feels very liberating. I feel like there's a lot of pressure off of me. Is there a part of you that kind of has accepted that in some ways you're always going to be an outsider? And how does that feel?

SPEAKER_00 16:17

Not only not only do I accept it, but I revel in it. It's one of my favorite things about me. In a world of white sheep, I want to be the black one. Because I feel like thinking outside of the box and never allowing your lens to be covered up by other people's views. Yeah. Is there's something liberating about it. And I think that it's just when you can start to see yourself in that manner, it also makes it easier to start approaching other people, looking at them the same way that you view yourself and finding that value in the things that a lot of people might call flaws or quirkiness or irritating or you're weird. You know, I I dance around when people tell me I'm weird. Heck yeah, I am. Hell yeah, I am. I don't even know. I'm looking, I'm looking at you and I'm like, oh, it's Kayla and I can't cuss, but I can. I'm a grown adult. Hell yeah. You know what I mean? I enjoy it. I enjoy that. Yeah. This is what makes me uniquely Wendy, and this is something that I love. Right. Belonging doesn't, it doesn't hold an importance in my world because I find value in the places where I do belong. And belonging within yourself is is just absolutely amazing. It's amazing. It's it's one of the best feelings.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

I agree. When I say I can't even with you, you say, of course you can't. I'm odd.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

So I know that you've you've come to some terms with one of my good old dad jokes. So that's one of my good old dad jokes.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

A lot of us we spend so many years trying to be accepted, and I feel like I look back and I'm like, I wasted so much time on trying to fit in. And it really wasn't worth it in the end because sometimes acceptance alone isn't enough. And we can be in places that accept us, but they don't necessarily help us grow and become the people that we are meant to become. So the belonging can actually become kind of a form of dependence. So what happens when belonging becomes something we need rather than something we choose?

SPEAKER_00 18:29

So think about a time. Okay, so here, yeah, here. I'm not gonna think about a time. I'm gonna, this is what I'm gonna do. I like sorry. I feel like I'm being sassy today. You have got to be. I feel like this is I it's just it I feel like it's today. I don't know if it's just been this week.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

I don't know if Saturn is in the Gatorade, I think.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Well, yeah, we've established that, but I've also not been this sassy for the whole Gatorade. No, but Saturn, not Mercury.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Maybe that's Saturn is now apparently in Gatorade.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, it's not my ruling planet. I think it's uh is it mine? It could be. Maybe that's why I'm getting sassy nephews and I don't know. I think it's just been a day. And I did my work and then I came home and I was developing outlines and did not bake cookies. No, no, no. I think I'm gonna do that later before bed. But, anyways, freaking cookies. I'm gonna laugh every time I see cookies now. Anyways, I do make good cookies, although a great chocolate chip recipe. But, anyways, back on point. You're gonna have to see there went my brain.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Okay, the guiding question is what happens?

SPEAKER_00 19:50

No, this is this so thinking about belonging as a point of dependence. I've got like I don't have this in front of me.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Oh, so we're in a group, we feel like we belong, but maybe it's not a healthy belonging.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

That's not what you asked me, but okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Let's let me repeat the guiding question. What happens? I can read it. You don't have to read it.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Liar. No, I do. I have it right in front of me.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Wow. The trust is crumbling.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Oh, it's crumbling to the ground. I enjoy you so much. I needed this today. Okay. So when we think about needing things, right, there's there's very few things in this world that we absolutely need. We need sustenance for our body in order to thrive. We need water, we need air to breathe, right? Stop and think when any of those things are taken away. If you're if you can't breathe, if you can't breathe, you're gonna do everything in your power to find somewhere to breathe. Like you're gonna fight, fight, fight. When you are hungry, people do crazy things. They steal, they hurt people for food because it's it's survival, like it's a need. So I think when you take something that's emotional and you place that in the category of need, at what point do we stop actually caring for ourselves because we are fighting so hard to get something that we think we can't survive without? But there's a need So if you say belong, you say if belonging as when you put belonging as a need, it means that you're gonna you're gonna sacrifice your morals, your values, you're gonna sacrifice who you are as a person in order to chase this thing that you think you need in order to sustain your life.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Some people and some people do. I mean, the worst of the worst I can think of in terms of belonging is a cult, right? Where you just are like, you're gonna do whatever that cult leader tells you, follow the lead.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

I know remember I'm trying I'm trying to start one. I'm trying to start one. I don't need to tell all my potentials. The secret. Hush, hush, we don't use the C word. That's actually a very good example, is a Colts. Even just certain clubs or academics. You've got like you have when I talked to Kristin for the mini episode when you talk about the mob mentality, right? We talked about the mob mentality and how people will actually compromise their own values and morals in order to just belong within that group and be a part of something.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

But doesn't that highlight though that it's a need?

SPEAKER_00 22:38

I mean, not that we should be doing those bad things, but that the the fact that Can I ask you a question being pushed if you didn't belong, if you didn't belong anywhere, would you cease to exist? No. Then how can it be a need? Well it's a want.

SPEAKER_02 22:55

But isn't it good for our mental design?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Are we social beings? We're social beings, but it's still not a need. It is a want and a desire.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Okay. That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

It is not necessary for survival. Okay. So the why And I mean, and anybody that wants can come at well, no, wait, wait, stop. Anybody that wants can come at me if with what with that, right? So like there's a lot of people I think that it as far as the whole world, everybody's gonna view the meaning of words differently. I approach everything in a very direct fashion. And you know that, Kaylin. I do have a lot of abstract thoughts, but when it comes to language, I am not abstract. And so the definition of the word need is it it doesn't fit with belonging.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Okay. That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Which is why when we start trying to belong to groups that we think we need, when we we need to belong, we put ourselves in situations that not only can be harmful to who we are as a human, but they could also be harmful to our bodies physically. Like we put ourselves in situations where we start allowing things to happen to us that we know are not right, that we know are not okay. And then we circle all the way back to the very beginning of this when we started talking about surviving a toxic uh relationship, right? So we could circle back to the very first, and it was the sense of belonging in that toxic relationship that kept you in that situation. It was that need to belong. It was that need that did that, and letting others convince you. So belonging, belonging should not yeah, yeah. And so, so need should never be associated with belonging. It is a want and a desire. And if we can look at it from that perspective, we can start being we can start having a little bit more discernment in where we place ourselves. We can start holding some sort of love and care and protection for ourselves in order to discern where we where we should, where we should belong, where we should want to belong, not need. We should want to belong.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Have you ever found yourself in situations where you felt you needed to belong then? Maybe is the question.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Oh yeah, of course. I I don't think there's I think if you the general population, I mean maybe there's some yeah, maybe there's some people out there that could say no, but I would imagine that that number's probably low. And I might side-eye them and be like, really? Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. I think from a very young age, I think we all felt like we needed to belong because we were told we needed to belong.

SPEAKER_02 25:41

That's a good point. You're right. You yeah, that is true. So then belonging could actually limit us in a lot of ways. And now the process requires us to recognize healthy belonging, what that looks like. And so that brings us back to discernment, which is what you had said, Wendy. So discernment is being able to look at a situation and decide if this is this is good or bad, and if we need to stay or leave. So, how do we choose where we belong?

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I think before you can choose where you belong, and this has been, we've been like the the progression of all of these series together's led to the culmination right here. This is where we're ending it, right? And I think as we've gone through all of these episodes, I think if you can identify the toxic, if you can identify what you're healing from, if you can authentically be yourself and learn to love you, I think that that's where you start finding that discernment. And I think one, the belonging is going to naturally find you. And two, you're gonna have uh rose-colored glasses scrunched up on the floor and you're gonna start seeing people for who they are, the value add that they give to you and the value add that you can give to them. Because here's the thing is you could be a safe space for me, Caitlin. But if I was toxic for you, yes, I might feel like the belonging with you is great, but I also need to be able to recognize how my actions are affecting the people that I belong to.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Absolutely. Yeah, so and I could, it's it's interesting. So when you think about discernment and how that actually develops, and I I don't know if there's a lot of answers there, but you did talk about you know valuing yourself, respecting yourself, understanding that you deserve better. And I think those are really important before you can really ever discern a situation. For me, I would say I was in my mid-30s, and I am I am a Reiki master teacher, and Reiki is just a form of energy healing where you you let energy flow through your body, typically out of your hands. And something clicked when I took my classes. I was like, oh, I can direct my energy. I can turn it up, I can turn it down, I can not give my energy. I have a reservoir that I have to keep full. Because if I deplete that, I'm no good to anybody. Uh, because I was apparently I was a people pleaser. I was someone who didn't have a lot of good boundaries. And once I realized I could do that, I was able to develop that sense of discernment. Like, this person doesn't deserve my energy, or maybe this person deserves this amount of energy, and this person deserves that amount of energy. And that's what really helped me. And I know that's sorry for those of you who maybe aren't very into those spiritual practices, but I I look at it as how you give your energy.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Don't be sorry. You I get you understand some people aren't into those, but there's no reason to apologize because you are. Because it takes me back to the conversation we were having in last week's episode where you were talking about how you had to you felt like you had to tiptoe around in your science community and within your spiritual community. So, and then this is a great example, and I'm I'm sorry, I'm not trying to call you out on this, but instead of tiptoeing around. I do, but instead of tiptoeing around in two separate communities, find the community that you belong to that that holds idealism in both. You know what I mean? So I just I I love you. I don't I'm I'm on a the sorry man.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

No, the way you don't be sorry. Yeah, no, we were we're in a friend group and somebody said that somebody had broken up and I thought it was for real. And the way she caught me emotionally was like, whoa, I couldn't I just visualize the trust ball thing where I could fall back and you would catch me.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Yeah, no, I caught I caught it immediately. I stopped him. I was like, well, guys, whoa, look what you're doing to Kaylin. Somebody better tell her this is a joke.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

Oh, yeah. So I get it. So do you have any experiences or anything in regards to when you decided to be more intentional about where you belonged?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

Um boy, that's oh, you know, that's been a journey I've been walking on for years, and I I can't even tell you that I'm there a hundred percent. I mean, you've seen me move into situations that weren't necessarily good for me and still have those rose-colored glasses on and make excuses for it. So I think it's uh it's a work in progress at all times for all of us.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

And I think what's important is that we always have our eyes open. I do not expect myself to sit back and say that, oh well, it was then, and all of a sudden now I don't have this problem anymore. And I'm sorry if I came off to anybody with that kind with that kind of energy. I am feeling a little sassy today, not classy, so I apologize. But yeah, no, I think I think it's always going to be a work in progress, and I don't think we're always gonna know. I think we could definitely read energy, and I think keeping the glasses off and not making excuses for the red flags or the caution flags, the yellow flags, whether it's in a friendship and a family dynamic, or if it's a relationship, you've got to have your eyes open. And we you can't put people on pedestals. You also cannot rely too heavy on them for for your worth. Like that has to come from within you. And so years of therapy, Caitlin. Like, I will be the first one to say if you don't have a therapist, get a therapist. It will be the best relationship of your life. Yeah. People are gonna be like, dang it, Wendy, I didn't like my therapist. Keep dating your therapist, keep just keep finding, keep just go on first dates with the one therapist to find the one. Not keep the spark alive, but just your dating pool now is your new therapist. Date a lot of them, find out which one fits. They should find your favorite therapist.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Therapist, find a therapist.

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Oh my gosh. They do. I don't have you ever heard of BetterHelp. There's plenty of apps out there where you could find therapists. Like, and we're not sponsored by BetterHelp, I promise you guys. But there are places out there where you can go and you can. Shameless plug. We have 10 listeners, guys. Woo-hoop. Thanks, mom and dad. Oh my gosh. 50% of our listener pool.

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Yeah, it's it takes quite some time to get to that point where you realize people don't always deserve your don't don't deserve your belonging. There you just gotta move on. But it's hard. It is definitely a process that I think we're always kind of working through.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Let me let me pose this question to you. Because you've seen you've seen me in situations before where, in fact, one of my really good friends now, right? When I first met her, I was like, ugh, I don't like her. Something about her I don't like. Right and so if I would consider that discernment, and this isn't where I belong, as opposed to looking at it from a different angle and being like, wait a second, what is it about her that I I'm not liking? What is it about her that's is is she challenging me? It's a good way to look at it. Is she forcing me to grow into something better than who I am now? And by discerning in that moment that I didn't like her because something about her challenged me, I would have missed out on a great friendship that's helped me grow. Right. Right. So I feel like discernment isn't just knowing what's good for you and what's not. Discernment exists in how am I treated? How am I accepted? How open and freely can I be my authentic self? Right. That that's your guiding question right there, Kaylin.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

So it all goes, it really all goes back to authenticity. Yeah, authenticity. That makes sense of that leads to healthy belonging, which is where we're moving to next. So, what does healthy belonging actually add to our lives?

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Well, I just said, obviously, we've got a great friend group. The people that are in my family unit that are belonging, you know me and the phone. You know how I'm not the fastest to text back, and I'm not always like I usually look at my phone when somebody's calling, and I'll be like, oh no. Yeah, do I have the energy for this right now? And I'll be like, hey, what's going on? That's when you get a text from me. It's like all of a sudden, oh, I haven't heard from Wendy in three days, and now she's texting me because I'm calling her to make sure she's alive.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

She's drinking NyQuil and Dayquil.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah, you know what? I was sick. Water. I was sick, Caitlin. Why do we always go back to that? So I drink plenty of water. It's in my coffee and my soda. So, anyways, just I do drink water, guys. I wouldn't survive in construction without water. So, anyways, I mean you wouldn't survive it all without water. My my kidneys would be wrecked if I didn't drink water, Caitlin. Yeah. Why are you trying to make me look so bad all the time?

SPEAKER_02 35:32

I'm not. I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

I just did the I just did that to myself, didn't I? Okay, so back to you just just keep sending me spiraling, then I I love it. I do love it. But I'm a train wreck if my thoughts don't stay focused. I'm all over the place. You know this from our conversation sometimes. Where were we in this outline?

SPEAKER_02 35:57

What does healthy belonging actually add to our lives?

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Okay, there we go. I think it adds personal growth. I think it's genuine happiness. I think it also allows us to be freer so that we can truly dive in and develop who we are. It gives us safe spaces to feel emotions.

unknown 36:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

It allows us to disagree without it turning into something personal, right? Like, oh, this person views this this way, I view it that way, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

I mean, my way or the right is always the comfies. I'm sassy today. I'm sorry. No, it does. It gives you the opportunity, you know, piggybacking off of what you just said, it gives you the opportunity to have open discussions with people and to also have uh the ability to maybe open your mind a little bit more and see things differently, as opposed to the closed-minded perspective you've always had. Because I think hearing other people's experiences and understanding other people's lives, it opens up a whole new world for us to even better understand ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 37:04

Yeah, that is true. So and it's so we're already complete beings, right? And it enriches what is already there. So it adds to our lives, and it just lets us be more authentic back to authenticity. It's like the more we feel like we belong, the more authentic we are allowed to be in that space.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Authenticity is one of my favorite words, and it's something that I seek out in most of my close relations.

unknown 37:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Absolutely. So if we're using discernment to get this healthy belonging, which is wonderful, there's also the other side where we kind of have to look at situations where it's not so healthy, and we're gonna encounter all kinds of people and communities throughout our lives. And our job is going to be to discern whether or not this is a healthy or unhealthy space to which we should belong. Uh so what happens when belonging no longer serves our growth?

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Oh, so yeah, I do think there's definitely a stagnation. Yeah. I do feel like yeah, yeah, I feel like you start seeing yourself uh adjusting who you are in order to fit in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Kind of shut down.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

So we move back, yeah, we move back into those icky feelings.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

The mask, the roles.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

And then yeah, and so I think once you start feeling that way, that's like I said, you gotta have them glasses off. You've got to be willing to go in and actually deep dive within yourself.

SPEAKER_01 38:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

And you have to be honest with yourself. That's I feel like I don't think enough people appreciate or understand how important and hard it is to be honest with yourself. We have a tendency to lie to ourselves so much in order to make things right in our world and in our brain and in our thoughts. Like you have to have that ability to be honest with yourself and say, hey. And then not only be honest with yourself, but then be honest with the people that you're around.

SPEAKER_02 39:10

Yeah, and I think being honest with yourself too is also, I guess I also have to question, well, am I contributing to this sense of not belonging? Am I making maybe somebody else feel like they don't belong? I always tell people, real self-reflection is so hard. I hate it. Because you really have to sit with all the feelings and look at yourself critically. You can't just point fingers at other people. You really gotta kind of look at what world you play in.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

I mean, you've you've yeah, and you've stated how important it or how uncomfortable it was when you first started meditating.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

I thought I was going crazy.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Right? Yeah, because I think when you meditate, I do it completely differently than you. I'm not the uh the ohm sit there quietly you know, flinging incense in my face. Because we all know music is something that moves me so intensely, right? And we all know it's like breathing, it's like a second language, and I could be listening to music and still thinking, actively thinking. I've told you this before. I can have music playing while I'm reading a book, and I can sing the songs while they're playing and I'm reading. That's cool. And then you could stop me and I wouldn't be able to tell you a single song I've read. Because you're like in a flow state state.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

You're in a flow state.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

I'm in a flow state. So music puts me into a flow state, and so music also puts me into a flow state for meditation. So that's one of the reasons I enjoy my job so much is I have so much time to reflect during the day. I throw my headphones in, I turn on some music, and then I can I can actually process and reflect on things that are happening in my life. Very cool. I can process and reflect on my behaviors, my thoughts, how the other people in my life are affecting me. And I meditate while I'm working. So we can just add that to the list of why Wendy is weird.

SPEAKER_02 40:59

I think that, you know, I actually think that is a blessing that you have that you can do that while you work. Yes. A hundred percent. It's very cool. Can you give me any situations where you you had you felt that at one point that you had this sense of belonging, and then you realized you didn't and you had to let it go.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Yeah. I really didn't. I don't want to go into relationships. That's okay. No, that's okay. You don't have to I just I can't think it's to be hard. To be honest, to be honest, the well the you know, I think that that that that ends up being one of your biggest heartbreaks.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Oh yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

And and I think that sense of belonging, that losing that in and losing yourself within that belonging, like and I we've touched on it in other episodes in this series, but I definitely have to say that uh the biggest pain, I mean it I want to say my family, but I don't think that I'd be genuine in saying that. Because I think I learned I learned at such a a young age, and then with that my you know, having to go at a very young age, you know, coming out, I came out at 21. And then having to go a young adolescent, young adult, learning what life was about and having to do it on my own. I gave that up so early on that it's I I don't I'm so separated from any pain that came from that. But I can tell you that I've had friends that have hurt me very bad. You know, I'm a firm believer that if you can't have my back at a table, I'm not sitting at, that's a that's a no-go for me because I'm always gonna have your back at tables you're not at. I'm never ever going to allow other people just to fit in or belong with it, because that happens, right? Oh, I want to be a part of this friend group and they're making fun of my really close friend, and I'm just gonna laugh and I'm gonna be a part of it. No, you can't.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

No, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Like that's that's that's one of those situations where you say, I don't belong here, because this person matters greatly to me. And I'm not you she might as well be here right now if you're talking like if you're talking like that about her while while I'm sitting in front of you knowing our relationship. Yeah. That was that was a very that was a very poor choice on your part because Wendy's not going to keep her mouth shut. Right. And so it's I think our expectation that people are going to treat us the way that we treat or love them, and then having and then feeling that sense of belonging because you have that that idea that that is what's going on, and then them not. I mean, I think that that's painful.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Yeah. It is painful. And I can give you a specific example. So, as I've talked about in the past, I have I I'm big into spirituality. I've been part, you know, I went to Catholic schools, I've been part of churches of various religions, I've studied Buddhism. I've studied Hinduism through my yoga training. And I I I like to think that I take some gems from each of them, which actually, if you look at them very closely, there's a lot of similar concepts. It's basically be a nice person. Well, be a good person. Let's say be a good person. Unfortunately, I've just found with community.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yeah, share with the group for me because you just said you just corrected yourself when you said be a nice person. Oh. You said be a good person. So because that's one of the things that I well, hang on. One of the things that I always say is I I always say, I don't know why people think I'm a nice person. I am not a nice person. And Caitlin always says this.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Yes, uh years ago I was at a diversity seminar, and I should have known better. I shouldn't have even used the word nice. But this gentleman who was leading the seminar said, nice stands for not inclined to critically examine. So I'll give you an example of nice. Nice is laughing at a racist joke because you don't want to confront the person who said the joke. Being good or being kind is saying, you know, that that's not funny. That that's racist and pointing it out. And even if you have to rock about a bit. So nice isn't that was not the best choice of words.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

So back to I mean, that's why that's we're we're not we're not nice people, Kaylin. We're good people. Yeah. So And you're the one, but you're the one, you're the one that taught me that. Yeah. Like I love that. I love that. That's true. Because you taught me that. And yes. Thanks, thanks for helping me grow within my belongings. Good, good.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

So being part of I've been, like I said, I've been part of churches. I was even part of a meditation group. I was part of a Buddhism group. The thing is, I do question things. I don't accept certain ideas. I feel that this is probably gonna make people mad, but here we go. I feel that so so religions have dogmas, right? They have dogmas, they have ideas that they want to spread, that they want their believers to follow. I feel like there are concepts in every tradition that I call them fatal flaws. I'm not gonna get into all that today, but I feel like there are concepts that can be weaponized that can really be get dark if you take them to the extreme. I don't like extremes, especially in terms of spirituality and religion. And I've just found that people don't really like when you, you know, people who are very what would we call like devout or devoted, they don't like it when you challenge those ideas. And you can really make people mad or kind of turn people off and they kind of don't want to deal with you anymore once you start to question them. And it's hard because I've found that these communities, it's easy community. I will admit that. Uh, you know, a church is very easy community. You're immediately in community. You're in community with people who are local to you. Everyone initially, especially when you're the new person, is very friendly and nice and wants to get to know you. But then as you start to challenge things and buck the system, people get kind of leery. Those who don't buck the system, let's say. So that is one thing I've had to let go of, and that's been hard because I do enjoy to sit in church for an hour and not have to do any have any other responsibilities. I don't have a problem with that. I grew up, I went to Catholic school for 13 years. Going to church was very much part of my routine. Going to a meditation session, it's great. It's it's you feel good afterwards, it's wonderful. I just have realized that at this point in my life, that community just isn't for me. And that's been hard to let go of.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

I think it becomes such a part of who you are. It does. We're told that it that it that it holds a piece of our identity.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Yeah, oh absolutely, yeah. Going to catch Catholic school for 13 years, you know, honoring the Sabbath. Yeah, like absolutely. It does become very much a part of your identity.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Yeah, I mean that that that goes back to beneath the mask, right? When you're trying to figure out who you you truly are and how to be, yeah, how to be that person, you know what I mean? Um yeah. No, I've so churches, but I told you. I'm gonna I'm gonna make the internet mad. I think we both churches have never really liked me. Churches have not like even from a young age, churches have never really liked me. Because I was the one that was questioning all the stories. I was like, well, that doesn't make sense. How did that happen? Well, that you know what I mean? Like, huh? How is it just Adam and Eve? And now all of a sudden there's 10,000 people and they only had two boys, like make that compete in my brain. Right. And listen, they only had two boys and one of them off the other one because apparently the world was too small for four people. You know what I'm saying? Like I was off the nursery rhyme, like the the fables, right? It's just it's the it's the same thing as as reading like about Hansel and Gretel and you know, all of those nursery rhymes. Like they're just warning labels to try to get people to act in a better way. Um, but it's it's I it it feels icky to me that there's so much control in it. Like obviously, there's always going to be conditions. There's always there's always gonna be conditions in life. Like we unconditional love, like we can love somebody, but we're always going to have conditions. That's what we call our boundaries. Those are our conditions. I will love you, but you do have to respect me too, right? And the conditions that are placed on, I think with not think of the conditions that were placed on me within churches, yeah, were conditions that I happily and gladly said, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Yeah, well, and no the comment that you got this morning, some churches they feel that way about women that you should be in the home baking cookies. I mean, they literally, and that's not not being extreme.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

Do you remember? Do you remember earlier when I said that um I'm a weirdo and I like to research things? Oh, I did a I did a deep dive in religion, don't you worry. Like, much like you, the Buddhism and all of that. I I I heavily researched Christianity more. So, like Lutheran, Jehovah's Witness, Catholic, non-denomination, Church of Christ, Baptist, you know what I'm saying? And I just don't look at me and tell me that I have to follow something that not only one is not in its original form, but has been manipulated by so many, like King James hated women. He hated women. And he he's the one that put down, put together the Bible that everybody is reading right now and calling it facts. And it's it's it's amazing because nobody wants to stop and look at how limiting it is for women. It's it's it's meant to squash them down and make them feel small and like they're less than. I'm sorry, I'm a firm believer. This world would not exist without women. Right. Everybody is born initially. The the the zygote is a a female.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Everybody is born female. Life begins You are a female for the first six weeks.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Women, absolutely. Yep. Absolutely. So unfortunately, sometimes our growth requires departure from places we felt we once belonged. And that is really hard. So most conversations assume belonging is something we find. But maybe belonging isn't something we discover. Maybe it's something we choose. Maybe belonging isn't about finding people who complete us, maybe it's about finding people who expand us, people who challenge us, support us, and create space for who we're becoming. Because perhaps the deepest form of belonging isn't losing yourself in a group. It's knowing yourself well enough to choose your connections wisely. Maybe belonging isn't about finally finding a place where everything fits. Maybe it's about learning the difference between connection that confines us and connection that helps us grow. Maybe it's about choosing people who make room for our growth rather than demanding our conformity. Maybe it's about recognizing that belonging doesn't have to come from need.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

It can come from intention, from discernment, and from a willingness to share life with others without losing ourselves in the process. Because belonging isn't just about where we fit, it's about who we become through the connection we choose.

SPEAKER_02 52:42

So I'll leave you with this question. Does the belonging in your life ask you to become less of yourself or more of yourself? And as always, what's missing from a discussion?

SPEAKER_00 52:55

Before we head out, Caitlin, since that was the end of our series, I would like to say thank you to everybody who's listened to these first episodes on identity about who we are and how life shapes us and why we hide and what it really means to belong. Um, hopefully we've made you think, challenged you a little bit, and even helped you see yourself in a new way. But now we're moving on to our next series, which is going to be the hidden forces. Uh, I'm excited about it. I know Kaylin is excited about it. Um, it was developed over uh one topic she wanted to discuss and then decided we were going to make this a series because it could also be beneficial and a great after the series, right? Mm-hmm, absolutely. And it's yeah, so over the next five episodes, we're going to explore some of the things that quietly influence all of us, often without us even realizing it. We'll talk about obsession, envy, power, revenge, and certainty. Not because those things only affect certain people, but because they're a part of being human. We're not here to tell you what to think. We're just inviting you into a conversation. And each episode is going to build on the last until the end. Hopefully, you guys like this one. And we hope that you will like and understand the hidden forces a little better by the time we're done. Maybe even understand yourself a little better. Until then, keep asking what's missing from the discussion. I am Wendy. Peace out. Did you like that? I did.

SPEAKER_02 54:35

I liked it a lot.